1.9 DG Starting problem

[Brooky]

The starter motor on my 1.9 DG engined '87 Caravelle will not turn. Won't even try. It has similar symptoms to other starting faults on this forum, in that it
turns over and starts very well one moment, then absolutely nothing the next time. The actual failure mode was; switched off, emptied all the garden waste from the back, went to re-start and it just clicked. Went to try again, clicked again. Went to try a third time, not even a click this time and that is where I am at the moment except for a number of tests I've carried out. I'm not still at the tip though! Started easily rolling down a slope.
I have good permanent 12 volt feed from battery to starter solenoid (the really heavy cable). I have good 12 volt feed to the solenoid when ignition switch is turned to the start position. The gearbox to body earth has full continuity, as does the battery to body earth cable and there is full continuity between the starter motor casing and the engine casing. I'm pretty sure I've ticked all the test boxes and decided that the fault lies within the starter motor itself.
I have made some observations during these tests though. When flexing the really heavy battery-to-starter cable, it crunched slightly, suggesting some internal
corrosion perhaps (remember though that the continuity along it is good). Also, in the two previous incarnations of this fault, I immediately assumed a starter
motor fault and had it checked by a competent auto electrician who, on each occasion, re-made a poor internal earth. I also renewed the starter motor spigot bush at that time. I'm now assuming that either this fault has recurred or, coincidentally, something else has failed within the motor. Furthermore, if I switch on the headlights and then turn the key to the start position, the lights go out completely, as does the handbrake warning light. Does this suggest an internal dead short to earth in the starter motor?

Brooky.

[Mickyfin]

Certainly sounds like an electrical problem.


Have you recently wired anything new in your T25, Alarm, stereo etc?

[phil miller]

When it clicks try wiggling the ign key in the barrel in the start position, if it cranks over your fault is the igntion switch on the back of the barrel, very very common, ive been out on 3 or 4 breakdowns (at fuel stations) over the last week to Transporters that have the same fault, after the normal checks the key wiggle proves the fault, so i then have to advise the owner that althou it will work they still need to replace the switch, part and parcel of working for a breakdown company on the A30 on the devon/cornwall border around run to the rain weekend

[Brooky]

Oh yeah, I'm sure it's electrical. Although I did toy with the idea that the new pinion bush might be an excessively snug fit round the pinion shaft, but it would have to be damn tight to stop the motor from turning and the solenoid would still operate, which it doesn't. And no, I haven't added any additional electrical paraphernalia.
The irritating thing with these starter motors with a pinion that is unsupported when off the vehicle, is that you can only test the solenoid on the bench, not the motor itself AND...when I do test the solenoid on the bench, it works. Could it be that, on the car, when I turn the switch to the start position, feed to the solenoid is made but feed to the motor (the big heavy cable) is lost? Would the solenoid still operate under that circumstance?

Brooky.

Hi Phil, sorry, I wrote this before seeing your post. I'll try that wiggle test. I have had to renew the ignition switch before, several years ago now and I can't remember why.

[Brooky]

Hi again Phil. Just noticed your location. I've just updated my profile to show my new location since May 2009 (that's how long it's been since I was last on this forum). I'm just 'up the road' from you!

Brooky.

[Brooky]

OK Phil. Tried the wiggle test to no avail. Not a flicker I'm afraid. Thinking a bit harder, I can't lose the permanent feed to the solenoid because it is just that;
permanent. What's the relay inside that black box in the engine bay (nearside front corner of the engine bay)? Starter motor relay perhaps?

Brooky.

[phil miller]

OK Phil. Tried the wiggle test to no avail. Not a flicker I'm afraid. Thinking a bit harder, I can't lose the permanent feed to the solenoid because it is just that;
permanent. What's the relay inside that black box in the engine bay (nearside front corner of the engine bay)? Starter motor relay perhaps?

Brooky.

Hmm could be, will have a look thro the wiring diag ive got, if all else fails i can always come over and we can go thro it all and see whats what

[Brooky]

Thanks Phil,

I'll have a look around myself as well and maybe try some direct battery connection to the starter with it in place on the car, using jump leads. I could have a fire on my hands before you know it!

Brooky.

[Brooky]

Well, after exhaustive wiring and connections testing for both voltage and resistance, I came to the conclusion that
the starter motor was faulty. I was reluctant to come to this decision because I've had it looked at twice now by a
retired auto electrician. But, faulty it was. Bit the bullet and bought an exchange, standard (rather than premium),
starter motor from GSF and it now nearly spins the engine out of the van! Fantastic! I've also learned a bit more about
my van into the bargain.
Thanks to you guys for the advice and help. Much appreciated.

Brooky.

[Mickyfin]

Mine's having a new starter motor fitted by a local garage due to some scum hotwiring mine, and stealing it. Lucky to get it back though.

Glad you sorted out your problem in the end